
There is little question, that in his 80th year, Stephen Sondheim is the greatest living American composer and lyricist for stage and film. Last night, I had a front row seat to a continuing series of “conversations” Sondheim is having around the country with New York Times writer Frank Rich. The great man is charming, hilariously funny, self-depreciating and chocked full of wisdom.
Sondheim was pushing his new prose book, Finishing the Hat, which puts his lyrics under a magnifying glass. He clearly enjoyed writing prose, which he said is not nearly as restricted as writing lyrics. “And the book is an object,” Sondheim said, “where stage shows are so liquid and keep changing.” For that reason, he noted, he always works these days with the book in view, because he’s so happy he finished it.
Sondheim covered a lot of ground, keeping the audience laughing much of the time. But he’s serious on the state of Broadway theatre. “I look around on Broadway these days and the average audience makes me look like a young guy!” he said. “These are people who are in the habit. It's why they go. The habit for younger people now is not live theatre. The habit is movies and things like that.
“In the 1940s, when I was starting out, it used to be half plays and musicals on Broadway; then, a few years later, it was one-third plays and the rest musicals,” Sondheim said. “Recently, at one point The 39 Steps was the only straight play on Broadway. And many of those new musicals are nothing more than concerts.”
However, Sondheim said he feels deeply that kids want to participate in live theatre. “I may be wrong, but I think that kids will always want to dress up and put on plays,” he said. “Live theatre will always exist at schools and universities. People want to do live theatre.”
As a kid in the 1940s before he became a songwriter, Sondheim liked straight plays, like Tennessee William’s Streetcar Named Desire and The Glass Menagerie, and classic films like Orson Welles’s Citizen Kane and John Ford’s The Grapes of Wrath. Then, in 1945, he saw the musical, Carousel.
“That’s the one that got me,” he said. “That one really moved me. I thought, oh my goodness, musical theatre.”
Sondheim still likes straight plays. He cited a new production of Hamlet he saw in England recently that he called “extraordinary.” And, he told the audience: “It has no songs.” He urged the people in the New York Times building to at least see an upcoming high-definition broadcast of it.
Rich asked Sondheim about his regrets about not having a child. “What would you pass on to a child,” he asked.
“Education is the big thing to me,” Sondheim replied. “The idea is teaching a child everything....to open up the mind.” This launched a discussion of people who had influenced him as both a child and adult.
Among his great teachers, Sondheim said, were a Latin teacher at prep school. “I had skipped a grade and had missed nouns and verbs. I met with her to tell her I was lost. She had an afternoon free and I had one of those soak-up afternoons. After that, I was ready to take the second half. It was a mind opening thing.”
In college, it was a music teacher. “He reduced music to mathematics. That opened me up.” After college, Sondheim studied with composer Milton Babbitt, who is now 94. He took four hour sessions from Babbitt early in his career.
What he does, said Sondheim, is really simple. “If you look at the inside cover of the book, there’s all you need to know about lyric writing. It's all there,” he said. “Of course, you have to have some kind of gift of expression, but essentially its such a small and clearly delineated and defined craft. Less is more. It’s like the card game, Bridge, which can be taught in five minutes. But to become really good at it, that takes a lot more time.”
In his long career, Sondheim said he has had no truly bitter experiences, but he described the best moments a man in his profession can have.
“There are times when you're standing in the back of a theatre and you see something you've written and it has fulfilled what the hook is and you see the audience come to it and take it in. You made that connection. You feel it. That, in this business, is as good as it gets.”
Two seats next to me on the front row at the Sondheim talk last night were reserved. Just as the program started, a camera operator and the great filmmaker, D.A. Pennebaker, came in and sat next to me.
Pennebaker, who is now 85 and I knew from previous encounters, told me he's doing another film on Sondheim. In 1970, Pennebaker had made a film on the making of the cast album for Sondheim's play, Company.
While we were talking, I told Pennebaker how much I liked his 2007 film, 65 Revisited, his one-hour re-edit from the outtakes of the Bob Dylan classic from 1965, Don't Look Back.
"You mean the friendlier version?" Pennebaker asked. "Yeah, Dylan saw it and liked it better too."